Item 185 27-MAY-89 15:31 Dave Hughes
DIRECT FROM CHINA !!!
Ok, I am starting this a s a NEW Item (continuation from Item 19 because at last we can hear *directly* from China, not through my summaries. My son Ed, in China now, and I have finally overcome the technical problems and are telecomming directly!
179 Discussion responses
185:1) Dave Hughes 27-MAY-89 15:33
OUR FIRST GRASS-CURSOR ROOTS TELECOM CALL TO/FROM CHINA!
My son Ed Hughes in Dalian, China took a Toshiba 1000, Procomm, and a Touchbase 1200 Worldport modem (which also can accept acoustic cups) He had tried calling Chariot in Colorado and Twics in Tokyo but the acoustic cups couldn't get carrier.
Then he had a problem where his ancient Chinese voice phone in his room quit pulse dialing. And of course there is no RJ11 jack on any of their phones. I told him if he could hook the center two of four wires inside the RJ11 female jack port on his Worldport to the phone wires with alligator clips he could pulse dial the phone with ATDP. (I learned that trick in Paris when I couldn’t get a jack) He asked me to send an RJ11 male connector with wires because he couldn't get a grip on the red/green wires inside the tiny tiny worldport (bout 2 inches).
And as he points out there are FEW tech tools in that part of China. So its hacker tools all the way.
Before it got there by the slow mail, he managed to carefully pull the two brass center wires out from the RJ11 itself, get a grip, hook them to the phone wires. (The phone is so primitive it has a box with hand wrapped coils between the wall and the instrument.) It worked! So he could voice call again.
So then we discussed trying to do a direct computer-to-computerconnection where I would call him from MY desktop, and he, sitting there would set up his computer and modem hooked to hisroom phone and type ATA without hitting C/R and wait for my call.
I told him as soon as he heard the phone ring, hit the C/R and his modem would (1)take the phone off the hook and (2)generate the answer modem tone.
(Then I would hear in my telephone instument whose line runs into the computer modem port and out again to the wall I would hear it, and press Enter on MY computer, whose Procom was set to ATD, and we should get a connection!)
We just did that, first at 1200 baud 8N1 and we got a connect, but the garbage noise was too high and we dropped back to 300 and tried again.
SUCCESS! The session-capture below is the FIRST data conversation we have had. Of course when you do a direct computer to computer call like that, there is no full duplex echo, so unless one sets Procomm to half duplex one does NOT see one's own typing. I was so concentrated on communicating with him I didn't think to change to half-duplex, so the capture is only of his incoming real-time typing.
So here is 'Xiao' Ed Hughes' first successful micro-modem telecom from China through international circuits, ancient Chines pulse dialed phones, hand wrapped coils, hacked out connections, from a laptop computer, at 3:30 AM Sunday from his room in Dalian, China – where the students are still on strike. It was 12:30 PM Saturday here in Old Colorado City. I was using my lap top with internal modem.
Ed's Half of the complete session
hello I have a connect please type ed
I am here I receive you perfectly clear with no garbage over
I will call now if you want
what is the number my id and password. over
want me to try a short upload of text or not? over
not now. to chariot it will take about ten minutes then I will call chariot
and leave two message one is typed and upload over
ok. I hate to talk money but I will let you know the cost.
I used my American express for $100 (to let you know) and it is easy to get money here
(also if you want anything just tel me and you get an amex bill
that is all for me so say goodbye and I will try chariot over
yes perfectly it is 3:30 am on sunday over
sample what and how
[I tried an upload, but mistakenly grabbed an unscrubbed (not pure
ascii) Wordstar File)
stop stop stop stop
much garbage about 15 to 20 % garbage
I can understand the message but the last letter or two is usually bad
a nd other garbage over
I agree with alt-f1 and will call chariot now
and you can call me in a few days
let me get re-familair with procomm and then we can further experiment...
185:2) Dave Hughes 27-MAY-89 15:34
From ed Sat May 27 12:46 MDT 1989
Hello from china!
this is my first offical message
everything is well for me here
my health is good and most people are quite friendly
just many are very curious about a tall blond hair blue eyed
I am far from beijin and it hard to get news except for the BBC and VOA
however I heard that Li Peng has gained power and that has made thte
people heard in low spirts, I hope things will be succesfull for
democracy here. This country needs it badly. This is the epitamy
of not what you know but who you know
that is all for now
tech notes: there is about a 1 to 2 second delay on character echo
which is expected and I think we should try and fix a time that you can
me every week and I leave my computer on and in answer mode and you can
upload any notes I have for the week
other wise call me between 10 pm and 12 midnight if you want to voice talk
to me. It will take a few days but I will be ready with an upload
and to be familiar with PROCOMM again
end of message
by from china!
185:3) Dave Hughes 27-MAY-89 15:36
Ok, folks. Who needs fax or telex. We got Ascii! Any questions?
(we need to make it so I can call him, because his cals are
over $200 an hour outgoing. I can get in for like $50 an hour.
So we will either host mode the Procomm or use some minibbs.)
Any questions for 'Xiao' Ed?
185:4) Gordon Cook 28-MAY-89 16:34
Well maybe you want to let him know that today's NY Times carried an article about the Netnews/Usenet conversations on China in the last 2 weeks and explained how when Chinese students in Berkely heard that students in Tienamin Square needed garbage removed they bought 1800 king
size plastic garbage bags and put one of heir number on a flight o Beijing to deliver them!!!!!
185:5) Dave Hughes 28-MAY-89 19:15
185:6) Sanyakhu Amare 29-MAY-89 9:18
Damn Dave...real exciting stuff!!
185:7) Lisa Carlson 30-MAY-89 11:05
wowie zowie! this is what networking is all about!
185:8) Bill Robinson 30-MAY-89 21:50
185:9) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 9:36
Yes, great. And i'm wondering if you're trying more experiments this weekend.
185:10) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 15:01
Once the shooting started in Beijing I called son Ed in Dalian (2:30 am there) to be sure he knew the cheese would probably get binding everywhere in China now. He knew from radio reports of the first attacks by riot police, but not of the army assaults with weapons.
He repeated that things had not changed in the last week in Dalian. Students still marched, and posters were up, but at no different level of intensity.
He went the 4 miles downtown by bus to Stalin Square Sunday, risked taking some pictures of 'several hundred' students protesting in the square. They were handing out leaflets which the populace eagerly were grabbing up. He was the only foreigner visible in the square. A plain clothesman who spoke only Chinese approached him, flashed ID, and escorted him over to a uniformed policeman who spoke English. The uniformed policeman asked whether he spoke English, he said yes, so the policeman asked him to leave the square. So he did.
On the more pleasant side, he made a two day trip with adult students and faculty to a place north called Zhuanghe, where he saw 'beautiful oriental rugs' being made in a factory. (his mother wants an oriental rug). Then they walked through an ancient Chinese park which they thought would take an hour but took 5, starting with a climb up stone stairs of over 700 steps.
He said it was a 'typical low cloud Chinese day.'
He finally received two airmail packages from us. One an excellent book 'China, Inc' I sent him about how to do business in China. He thinks it very accurate about how to deal withChinese.
He has been asked to meet and speak with senior officials in the Dalian 'Bank of China.' Word has gotton around that he is technically competant. He will try to dial into our system in Colorado from the bank, as a demo. So now, besides a petrochemical company and a computer company, a bank is interested in him and his technological skills. Which he can demonstrate from a Toshiba 1000 lap top and an American Touchbase modem. If the whole country does not go into a new cultural revolutionary anti-foreign phase, our Old Colorado City Communications efforts to start doing computer/modem/telecombusiness in China through the ancient seaport may yet work. And with the new 9600 baud packet radio sets our maker is about to deliver, we just might have a hell of a market!
We also set up, orally, an automatic upload/download direct micro to micro session for next Tuesday morning. At which time he will have written (and arced) report on the local fall out from the latest in Beijing. And we will upload requirements for export. Just as if everything is normal.
185:11) Gordon Cook 03-JUN-89 17:57
185:12) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 18:01
Wow. Thanks for the continuing reports Dave. I'm troubled by the shooting -- but certainly pleased you're still in good contact and that Ed is doing fine through all this.
And double wow -- did you really say 9600 baud packet radio? Now that's a breakthrough.
185:13) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 19:22
Yes, 9600 baud. The key is the radio, not the packet. So both our custom-supplier and TAPR, the ham supplier are shipping this month combined radio+packet for the $500 range.
185:14) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 19:37
Yes, Ed told his mother not to worry, he is 'safe'.
What will be intersting to find out from him is what will happen to the Dalian students who 'struck.' For in order to justify the hard-liners approach they went on national tv and claimed they were being attacked by a 'counter-revolutionary' movement.
Which of course are code words for treasonous citizens. But what makes *this* protest-reaction different from the Cultural Revolution of over a decade ago, is the incredible amount of multi-level/channel communications coming out of there transmitting the attack on the protesters in all its violence. Such things as the CBS evening news broadcasting he voice and gunfire sounds in the square live right up until the reporting team was attacked, equipment ripped out of their hands, yells and grunts (and ironically even the digital sounds of a phone being dialed), and then being taken into custody violently, the still photos (transmitted by some kind of color fax?) all have sent the horror across the globe as nothing else could.
All of which backfire on the hard-liners via other governmentsunder pressure from their own aroused public that will change the course of history.
And I think, given the non-violent and controlled behavior of the students all these weeks, the sympathy will all go to them. Can hard-line leadership with an aroused Chinese population
185:15) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 19:39
So are we (MDG) in the que for this? What do we need to do on our end?
185:16) Frank Burns 03-JUN-89 19:42
My guess, dave, is no. Violence done to non-violent people is not something most people of the world can stomach in this age of communication.
185:17) Dave Hughes 03-JUN-89 19:49
It appears that the abortive attempt to clear the square yesterday with riot police backup up by unarmed (directly) soldiers, was so botched when the public contfronted them in the side streets,sending the soldiers, humiliated back out from the center, that the enraged ultra-hard liners got the go ahead to use all force. But there may even have been disobeyed orders and dis-honor
among the hard asses. There is a report there were negotiations and an agreement by student leadership to leave the square but the army attacked one hour before the deadline. (they are on daylight savings time too. Some commander have his watch set wrong?)
I'll bet this will trigger an even greater internal leadership power struggle-debate.
185:18) Bill Robinson 03-JUN-89 20:39
Book it. Those students have laid it on the line, gotten international recognition in the media. No way will it stop here, I think.
185:19) Dave Hughes 04-JUN-89 10:58
Frank, you say you are deeply troubled by the shooting. My angergoes so deep that if I had the opportunity I would dispatch Peng and Deng right off this planet by my own hand, and never think twice about it. Evil is evil.
ABC reports that the Red Cross in Beijing estimates over 2,000 were killed.
The video films which had to be flown to Hong Kong before being satellite transmited to the US clearly show that the students were willing to confront the armored, buttoned down vehicles directly and closely, leaping on top and beating them with sticks. Not a few, but whole crowds.
And one reporter says it was not only students, but that as fire was being directed at one group, the people in it - working people were chanting 'strike, strike' - the labor organizations protest.
185:20) Bill Robinson 04-JUN-89 13:13
These reports that soldiers were going into hospitals and demanding that doctors stop treatment of injured demonstrators -- does anyone have first-hand witness to that?!?
185:21) Matt Minahan 04-JUN-89 22:24
There were also some second hand reports that the soldiers had just heaped the bodies of dead and wounded together, on a pile with broken bicycles and debris, and torched it all . . . Gawd, how can we do this to ourselves?
185:22) Taylor Walsh 04-JUN-89 23:59
Grisely reports from CBS just now, plus a photo of a soldier apparently lynched and burned by the students.
Reports also said some doctors were killed in the hospitals attempting to treat patients (this from ABC). Also that the government in trying to downplay the numbers has tried to collect bodies and burn them.
Tonite (morning in China) CBS says the Army has civilians "pinned down".
I am reminded of the film "Unbearable Lightness of Being" which appeared last year and which succeeded in intermingling the fiction with footage from the Soviet crush of the uprising in Prague in 67 (around which the novel and film are played). I am reminded of those scenes by those of this weekend in Beijing. Terribly similar: heady demonstrations for democracy that seem to take root in the populace.
Then the tanks.
I only hope more reasonable hearts and minds are in the leadership and that they can act.
185:23) Gordon Cook 05-JUN-89 9:37
News repoprt on Today this morning at 8:30 am that the US embassy has sent 10 minibuses to main university to retrieve American students studying there, that some soldiers have fired on other soldiers, and that a column of soldiers in 200 military vehicles left their vehicles and set them afire.
Reports last night that showed soldiers seated at curbside looking absolutely miserable with crowds glowering at them from a few feet away, neither saying much to the other.
Resemblance to Prague is only skin deep. this is too big and also not the troops of one country against the people of another.
Heard last night that these troops are from the distant provinces and had been told to expect something other than what they saw. The lid may blow next in shanghai.
185:24) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 11:16
There also may be clashes between two parts of the Army whose leaders are loyal to either thehard-liners or the reformers. Parts of the Army have undoubtedly been horrified at the brutality shown by the parts who were brought in from afar and told that they would be fighting an armed insurrection.
And Bush's announcement that we will stop military sales will convince others that the modernization of the Chinese military has been jeopardized, playing further on the strains *within* the military leadership.
Remember that the Chinese army itself had suffered deep cutbacks, so much so that soldiers went without pay, during the economic 'reforms' of Deng.
So politics internal to the military leadership may become a much larger factor now.
I simply can't see Peng and Deng staying on top much longer. With nation after nation taking some action against the regime. Wanna bet the private diplomatic messages are all saying "We won't cooperate as long as those who did this bloody deed are in power?"
185:25) Gordon Cook 05-JUN-89 14:51
I hope you are right dave. Bush said we would stop military sales??? Good!
Looking forward to your micro to micro connect with Ed tomorrow!
185:26) Matt Minahan 05-JUN-89 16:31
I just learned that the World Bank has called its China staff home . . .
185:27) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 18:15
A CNN in-country reporter quotes an unnamed Chinese official (whom he said had no reason to fabricate the story), that doctors treating wounded soldiers found them so hyper that they checked blood and urine samples and found drugs. The soldiers said they had been injected before the clash by doctors who told them they were to prevent disease from the unsanitaryconditions in the square.
Which the CNN reporter says could account for the extreme actions of the soldiers.
Bizzare, but plausible. Especially since the regime was as much worried about the reliability of the soldiers as they were the loyalty of their officers.
185:28) Gordon Cook 05-JUN-89 18:20
Glad to see the pull back by the Bank.
Astounding story dave.!
I am tempted to try to find and join the china news group on usenet. The rtraffic must be something!
185:29) Bill Robinson 05-JUN-89 19:19
Incredible. Why didn't anyone else pick up on that, for God's sake?
185:30) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 19:42
Things move very fast in the news world, Bill. It came from one CNN reporter (Chinoy), by phone to the live news at 4:30 here. Other networks wouldn't repeat it just because one reporter said it - not revealing his source. They are probably scramblingto confirm it for themselves.
That military split is *very* obvious now, and might precipitate a civil war if the 27th Army (in the center of the city with its large armored force, which now looks as much as if they are 'protecting' the government from military coup, as keeping the people away) moves against the students in the university compounds.
For other elements (38th Army I think) have moved in close enough to place themselves between the 27th and the compounds.
185:31) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 19:47
The soc.culture.china newsgroup is pretty wild, Gordon. (I have it feeding into my system here). But with the 2-4 day 'cycle' time of comments, with distribution taking 2-3 days, the mixture of calm statements, frantic messages, old stuff juxtaposed with new stuff, its pretty psychedelic.
Comments reflecting the beginning of the massacre entered into some systems are only now reaching the end distribution points.
185:32) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 19:50
The images of that lone man who stood his ground before a column of 18 tanks, which stopped cold, tried to turn right and he followed, tried to turn left and he followed, then just sat there while he stood there, then clambered atop it and started lecturing the crew before other civilians 'rescued' him is as classic an image as will ever be seen in this whole affair.
On the Avenue of Heavenly Peace....
185:33) Dave Hughes 05-JUN-89 21:21
Here, Gordon, are some of the more interesting comments from the last 300 messages in the china newsgroup -----MANY ARE FROM CHINESE STUDENTS STUDYING IN AMERICA AND ARE THE CHILDREN OF WELL HEELED CHINESE GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY PARENTS (I will get other direct computer to computer messages from Edward in a few days.)
Article 18474 of 18511, Sun 18:27.
Subject: Where is the 38th Army?
(25 lines) More? [ynq]
The foreign barbarians got the 27th Army of President Yang Shangkun to do the dirty work. According to a phone call this morning (8am EST) to a Professor from Bei Da, he said that the troops were from the West and that they were "veterans". This sounds very suspicious like it is the personal army of Yang Shangkun.
But, where was the Beijing Army Commander and the 38th Army? Accordingto my sources, the two old marshals of Deng's rank had said they would attack anyone who would first shoot the students in Tiananmen Square.
My source was from one of the Generals of the 38th Army. But, where arethey now?!
The Beijing Army Commander and the 38th Army commander should be ashamedto allow such a bloody crime be committed right in front of their faces!!!
I agree with the netter who suggest that we call the Generals and tell them to not kill Chinese.
Down with Li Peng!!!!!!!
Down with the CCP!!!!!!
Long live China and the brave Chinese people!!!
Long live Democracy!!!
Article 18483 of 18511, Sun 19:43.
Subject: Don't be Surprised about this Massacre: it Came a Long Way
Keywords: Vietnam, Lasha to Beijing
We didn't care about the brutality of PLA troops in Vietnam. Trainees in
Chengdu Army Official's School returning from Sino-Vietnam 1979 war told a lot of horrible stories about killing literally everyone.
We didn't care much about the shooting at protesters in Tibet. Some still insist on that it's reasonable for PLA to kill in Lasha.
This time, they are killing our sisters and brothers.
So, don't be surprised by this. The bullets approached us rather slowly and we simply refused to pay any attention if didn't praise it. I appreciated their brutallity in Vietnam (God forbiden) and felt indifferent about killings in Lasha. It's us who tolerated the PLA getting used to charging fires at civilians.
When you make your tiger thirsty for human blood, the next victim is you your self. The solution is unambiguous eliminate this tiger from the earth by any means.
The oversea phone calls to Beijing have done great jobs for the past month.
The oversea phone calls to Shanghai have contributed alot too the great transportion paralyzing in Shanghai.
The phone no. of Jiao Tong Univ. at Shanghai is:
310310 ask for Students Union (24 hour on duty.)
The phone no. of Fudan Univ. at Shanghai is:
operator 011-86-21-484906 ask for Student Union
-485903 ask for youth teacher.
I urge all of us call the you home University and home time as much as possile, Especially Cities that are NOT Beijing , Guangzhou,and shanghai.
Cities like Wuhan , Xian , Shangyang , Nanjing ,etc. got lots of students who are the pioneers of the fight.
(messages betweeb Ed and I continued in subsequent postings)